[Video] How to create a business aligned with your values

Understanding your values and what matters most to you is like a decision-making shortcut for ethical business owners — the ‘right choice’ is more obvious when you have a clear framework to measure each decision against.

This is what I have learned over the past decade of running my own digital marketing business.

So, I was thrilled to sit down recently with my sister Alana for this deep-dive chat on how permaculture frameworks can help you get clear on your values — and then how to apply all that knowledge to your work, scheduling, offerings and content creation.

In this interview, we discuss:

• Two different moments in my career that helped me identify when I was out of alignment with my values.
• The specific structures and frameworks I’ve used to figure out what my values are.
• What to do if you’re offered a work opportunity that doesn’t align with your values but you really could do with the work / cash at that moment in time.
• Using your values to define your work hours and create more space in your schedule.
• Using your values to create offerings that feel aligned and suit your preferred style of working.
• Creating content that connects with your community and attracts aligned opportunities.
• How you can use your small business to be part of a new movement to break down old, unhealthy paradigms in the workforce.

I’m so grateful to Alana for inviting me on to her YouTube series for this insightful chat, which really got me thinking deeply about how and why I work the way I do.

Have a listen or, if you’re more the reading type, you can find the full transcript below.

Interview transcript

Alana:              Hey, I’m Alana from Alana Jade Studio and welcome to another episode of Women Who Are Doing Business Differently. I’m chatting with my little sister today, Koren Helbig. Hi! We’re going to talk about how to create a values‑aligned business. And I think when we talk about values‑aligned business, often what comes to mind is, well, first of all, what does that actually mean? How does that actually look? Is it possible to create a financially abundant and really successful business at the same time as having a business that is aligned with your values?

                        And the big question that I often get asked is how the heck do you even figure out what your values are? So, that’s what we’ll explore today with my little sister, Koren. So, to give you a bit of a back context, Koren is probably one of the best examples – she is one of the best examples I’ve seen of someone who has reworked her life and her business to bring it back into alignment with her values.

                        So, Koren started out as a freelance journalist, working for a number of different newspapers here in Australia. Then she took her writing abroad to Spain and did freelance, I would say journalism, but also storytelling in a number of forms. Then she returned to Australia and worked for a very well‑known charity here. And recently, she has started her own online business in her little home in Adelaide and which she’s currently renovating sustainably, which is an awesome story. You should go check it out.

                        So, currently she’s working in a part‑time gig with an organization that’s very aligned with her values and I’m sure she’ll tell you more about that. But she’s also working on a number of her own projects, including a freelance writing column for ABC Gardening, offering digital strategy consulting to other online businesses and running her very popular honesty stall, The Local Yum, which you should definitely go and check out on Instagram because it’s so freaking cute. It’s just so cute. It’s really cute. I’ll leave the link to the Instagram profile in the notes with this blog.

                        So, as you can hear, Koren has a lot going on, but what you’ll see in this interview is that she’s been doing it all in a way that supports her wellbeing, connects really beautifully with her community, is financially abundant and, most importantly, it makes her truly happy and fulfilled. And I think that these are all beautiful signposts that Koren has created a business that is aligned with her values. So, after that really long intro, welcome Koren.

Koren:            Wow, thanks. That’s a heck of an intro. What a lot to live up to.

Alana:             You can use all of that in your bio if you like.

Koren:            I will. And of course, you’re not biased at all, you know, being my sister.

Alana:             I’ve watched very closely from the sidelines, so I think I can do a very fair summary of how awesome you are.

Koren:            Thank you.

Alana:             So, let’s dive in. So, tell us firstly, when and how did you realise that you needed to align your work life with your values?

Koren:            I actually think I’ve had this realisation twice and I reckon I’m probably going to have it another two, or three or four times in the course of my life because I’ve realised that it’s something that you have to keep returning to and it’s very easy to kind of stray away and not realise and then kind of be like, “Oh, hang on a sec. I’m out of alignment again,” and then have to have the whole realization again.

                        So, I think the first time for me was back in 2012. So, I was working for a major metropolitan daily newspaper up in Brisbane. And I, yeah, I just started to feel…

Alana:             Memories.

Koren:            Memories. And living with you in our little green house and it was awesome. And we were blogging together and doing a heap of really cool stuff that felt really in alignment. And the more that I did that, the more I realised that my work life perhaps wasn’t aligning with who I wanted to be and what I wanted to do in the world, especially the company that I was working for and who owns that company.

                        So, that’s when I made the decision to move to Spain and sort of do life differently there. And that went really great for four years and was totally awesome. And then I came home to Australia and did it here for a year as well. And then I had an opportunity to go and take another fulltime job. And it was a really great opportunity and I grabbed it with both hands. And yeah, over the course of the next three years, you know, slowly realised that, “Oh, shit. I’m actually out of alignment again.” And so, that was when I had realisation number two and had to course correct.

                        So, yeah, it’s been really interesting to go through that a second time because it’s made me realise that this is not a static thing. You’re not like, “Right, these are my values. Cool. Decision made, done. Tick, move on.” Yeah, I think it’s something you’ve got to keep consciously thinking about and checking in with and course correcting.

Alana:             Absolutely. I would 100% agree. It is always such, yeah, an evolving process. And I think too, with the situation that the world is in and how fast- just all the different things that are going on in the world, but also how fast things change too, but the nature of perhaps our values is, particularly the values that we have, our values are very similar and I know probably many of the other women and men who listen to this would probably have similar values to us because they’re part of our community, those values are maybe not so much in alignment with the greater things that the world are valuing right now. You know capitalism, consumerism, overconsumption, money over- you know, profit over sustainability, everything else.

                        And so, I think it’s very easy too, to get drawn back into that old paradigm, or that current paradigm that that feels very old for us now. And so, you kind of do have to keep on it all the time and just reassessing and re‑evaluating for sure.

Koren:            Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

Alana:             So, the big thing that people often question is how do we figure out what our values are, and that can be one of the trickiest things when we first, like, go on this journey. So, can you tell us what your values are and what that process was for figuring them out?

Koren:            Yeah. Well, I think that you and I are quite lucky in our family that we were given these really strong values as kids from our parents, particularly around the environment and protecting the environment, caring for the environment. So, I think that’s always been a really strong thread that our whole family has had throughout our lives.

                        But I have to say, it probably wasn’t really something I considered or focused on, gave a lot of focused thought to when I did that first breakaway, when I first moved to Spain. I kind of thought, “Yeah, I want to do things differently. I don’t want to work a nine to five anymore. I don’t want to flog myself until I’m sick, working for an organization that doesn’t align with me. I want to care more about the environment.” And that was kind of it. And that was a good starting point.

                        But what I found was, after I came home in 2017, I did my Permaculture Design Certificate and that’s where I learned the three ethics that are involved in that movement being earth care, people care and fair share. And they were really easy to remember and they just felt right for me. They really aligned with what felt right to me.

                        And so, I think since those ethics quite firmly and strongly came into my life, it’s been a lot easier to assess whether I’m on the right track or not. So, yeah, I guess in terms of like how does that apply, if I look at earth care, that’s protecting and caring for our natural environment, in my work and personal life. So, choosing to work with people who look after the environment or are involved in sustainability, that kind of thing, rather than just choosing any old client.

                        People care. That one’s been really strong, a big one for me personally because I am a workaholic. I do have a tendency to overwork. So, I like to apply that people care ethic to myself around how can I care for myself in a way that’s going to keep me going and not knock me down, I guess. But also, yeah, caring for everyone, our community and making decisions that help other people and lift other people up rather than knocking them down.

                        And fair share, I think that’s all about sharing your yield, sharing whatever abundance you have. That could be money, or time, or skills, or cooking, or literally anything. For me, it’s meant donations, so donating to indigenous‑led organizations, paying the rent, as they call it. And also donating to environmental organizations that are doing great work in the climate crisis space. But, yeah, volunteering has been a big one for me too, and giving my time. So, you know, I’ve got a lot of skills that I’ve honed over years and there’s a lot of organizations that really need communication skills. So, dipping in and doing little projects here and there as a volunteer, I consider to be fair share.

                        So, yeah, I think the really amazing thing about having those three ethics and thinking about them regularly is that they kind of have now just been woven through my whole life, including my work life. And the response that has come from that realignment has just been insane, actually, you know. Like personally, definitely, but professionally, I’m just getting opportunities coming out of the woodwork daily, it feels like, which may be overwhelming, but it’s just so amazing to be like, “Wow, I’ve gotten really clear on what’s important to me in ways that are going to help myself as well as others.” And then suddenly all of this opportunity that’s really aligned starts to come my way. So, yeah, powerful.

Alana:             Yeah, really powerful. I think that’s a really good signpost of having, like running from your values is those opportunities that come, but also, I also found that like the timing of it, like it’s really interesting how things line up so beautifully when you’re just like you’re in that momentum of it or something.

                        Also, just something that you mentioned back in the first question that I just actually wanted to pull out because I think it’s interesting for people who, as of course have got a notebook, so it’s just like I’m back now. Terrible interviewer, but I think it’s interesting for people who are maybe just first on the journey and that’s when you said right at the start in your journey you were like- we’d started blogging and we were doing all of these things that felt more in alignment with our values. And then because of that, your work situation at the time was starting to feel more and more misaligned and I think that’s a really good telltale sign that you’re actually uncovering what your values are.

                        So, I think for people listening, if they are feeling really incongruent in some area in their life, to not like beat yourself up that you’re not where Koren is with all of the opportunities that are coming her way or something. Like that is one of the big steps is that when you start to do things that are more in alignment with your values, things that aren’t in alignment, get more like uncomfortable. And that’s just part of that uncovering process.

Koren:            Yeah. Definitely, the discomfort is a signpost. And that can be really powerful. And I think the other thing is like I didn’t jump all at once. Like by the time I was ready to leave for Spain, I think we’d had the blog – I can’t remember. I think it was two years or something like that. You know, we had been playing in that space for quite a while for free. I wasn’t getting paid for that. I know not everyone’s got the time or energy to put into free things, but I guess what I’m getting at is if you’re starting to feel like, “Ugh, is this the right way for me?”

                        An easy way to kind of experiment is to just pick something really small that it’s not going to matter if you fail, it’s not going to matter if it doesn’t make you money. It’s literally just to play in a different headspace or a different way of being and see both how that feels, but how does it make you feel about the rest of your life. And that’s probably the rest of your life bit that’s the biggest signpost because, yeah, that’s exactly what happened. We were blogging about sustainability and living more ethically and supporting really great organizations and then, yeah, I was like, “Ooh, am I supporting that in my work life? I’m not sure.”

Alana:             Yeah. It’s interesting because we both went through pretty much the same thing at the same time. So, yeah.

Koren:            That was just some fun years.

Alana:             They were really fun, but it just feels uncomfortable at times.

Koren:            Deeply, deeply uncomfortable, yeah.

Alana:             So, let’s talk about how those values, those three permaculture ethics and what you’re now using as your values, inform the way that you do business. So, whatever kind of comes to mind, but it could be work hours or the way that you choose clients, create content, what you offer, any of those pillars of business.

Koren:            Yeah, okay. I think the big one is client selection, who I choose to work with. That’s both in my freelance side of the business and my employee side of the business. So, yeah, I mean, this would probably never happen now because of the way that I’ve been communicating for such a long time, but imagine if a fossil fuel company came to me and said like, “Hey, would you want to work with me?” You know, that would be a pretty easy flat no probably for a lot of people.

                        It’s actually probably a terrible example, but you know, imagine if, I don’t know, a clothing company came to me and said, “Yep, do you want to help me market my business or whatever?” my first port of call is always having a look through like who is this person? Who are- what is their business? What are their values? Like, so I’m actively thinking, “Do they have similar values to me?” And if I found out that most of their clothes was made in China and they didn’t have any of the kind of ethical structures around manufacturing overseas, or they were making all of their products out of unsustainable fabrics, or something like that, that would still be a no for me.

Alana:             Can I ask you something there about that because I too have been in that situation with a skincare company that tested on animals, or someone who wanted a beautiful man, but the work he was doing was for a hunting organization. And so, that’s very directly against what I want to support. But I could have really done with that work at the time. You know, I had some space. I could have filled that. I could have done with the cash. And so, it was really hard to say, “Look, no. That doesn’t work.” You know, like that, what do you say to those kinds of situations?

Koren:            Yeah, that’s really tough. Really tough. I think in Spain, I struggled with that a lot because I was just starting out as a freelancer. I didn’t have anywhere near as many opportunities. My values weren’t as defined and I-

Alana:             Interesting.

Koren:            Yeah. And I was pitching like a mad woman. You know, pitching and getting rejected daily was kind of like my experience for those first couple of years in Spain, rejected as a freelance journo. So, yeah, I totally understand how hard that is and you could look at that two ways. You could be like, “I’m going to cut myself some slack because I’m under financial stress and being under financial stress doesn’t help me either,” and just say, “I’m going to say yes to this opportunity for a time limited period,” knowing that I’m not aligned, but it’s going to get me out of stress and help me be in a more balanced position.

                        Or you, if you can, if you’ve got the privilege, the financial privilege to be able to say no, to work like that, I always find that when you say no to something that’s not- I often find when you say no to something that’s not super aligned, something that is more aligned comes in to fill that vacuum. So, not filling up all of your space, especially when you know it’s not quite right, is actually pretty powerful. Yeah, and I guess it’s also a bit of an opportunity to look at your values again and wonder, and think about whether you’re communicating them effectively enough. Like that that person who’s come to you and asked for your help, who doesn’t really align with you, why did they think that you were going to be a good person to work with?

                        You know, they should have come to your website, or your Instagram or read your emails or whatever and gone, “No, not quite for me,” because that is marketing, you know. You’re turning on the people you want to work with, but you’re also turning off the people you don’t want to work with because that saves you a shitload of time. You don’t have to be chasing leads, or figuring out how to say no to people politely or whatever. So, yeah, I guess that’s the third option. Have a look at your communication and what can you sharpen up or make clearer so that that person doesn’t come knocking again, but just the right person does next time.

Alana:             Brilliant. Thank you. Thanks. That’s really good advice. Must go re‑have a look at my website.

Koren:            Just remove hunting from your website, Alana.

Alana:             I like to work with… So, random. YouTube. That’s where it came from. Thanks, YouTube. Yeah, so sorry. That was really valuable, but any other ways that values inform your business?

Koren:            So, the other big thing I’m working on, this is a stretch area for me and I’m going to say right up, I’m not doing a very good job of it, but work hours. So, when I had the first realisation over a decade ago, I realised at that point that I didn’t want to work fulltime anymore because I have these workaholic tendencies, and I overwork and I do actually make myself physically sick. So, I made that commitment and then since then, I’ve gone back and forth, and back and forth and sort of not always managed to stay true to that. But yeah, I guess not working fulltime is really important to me from that people care ethic.

                        And I also find that if I give myself more space in my week, then I am much more creative and things flow a lot more easily. I’m much more easily able to write, or I don’t feel overwhelmed by my inbox of things that I need to reply to, or whatever. So, yeah, I’m kind of in a period at the moment where I’m working five days a week because I have taken on a fairly large temporary project. So, that’s going to consume a few more months, but I’m really looking forward to getting really firm boundaries on that work hours element and trying to pull back to the four days a week and just open up a little bit more space.

                        And on that fifth day, I’m not saying that I won’t work. I love leaving it free. I don’t book shit on that day. It’s not like, “Oh, I’ll go catch up with blah, and do that, and run this errand.” No, it’s like it’s just a day to wake up and be like, “What do I actually feel like doing today?” And some days, I went and volunteered at a local urban farm because I wanted to learn a bit more about food growing. Some days, I lay in my garden, staring at the chickens. Other days, I was like, “Oh, I really feel like writing a blog post, or writing something on Instagram.” So, it’s not like do not work on this day. It’s more like here is a space. Use it as you feel on the day without booking because I don’t think we do that very often. We don’t really book space and have no expectations of what will happen inside that space.

Alana:             Totally. And I think that’s a good- you can even use that as a good experiment or like investigation on what you’re being drawn to on those days because I imagine that would also help you reflect on like where you’re interested in or what- like it would help you reflect on your values again in that sense, like what are you actually doing in that time? Yeah.

Koren:            Yeah.

Alana:             And I think too, with the hour thing, like I’m the same. I’m like you, very much a workaholic and have to keep on top of that all the time. And I think that there’s also an ebb and a flow to it as well. Like you have this exciting project that you’ve taken on now and it feels good and exciting to do that and work in that. And it might actually be energising for you rather than depleting, but knowing that that’s not how you want to work forever, or even for multiple months at a time. It’s just a short period. And then also allowing yourself to have that rest on the flipside of it as well because I think we think from working in the corporate world that it’s like flat out or nothing, kind of flat out or nothing, but because we’re taught that you just keep doing the same thing and showing up in the same way for the same set amount of money over and over again. But that’s not really how it works when you work for yourself. It is more of an ebb and flow.

Koren:            Yeah. I love- you said this to me a few months ago and I love this. I think you said it to me around learning clarinet. I can’t remember. Call me out if I’m wrong, but you said something about, “At the moment, my favourite way of approaching stuff is to commit to a short period of time, like commit to 10 weeks of lessons or whatever and I give it my all in that period, but it doesn’t feel so – I don’t even know the word – like locked in because I’m just committing. And then at the end, I assess and then if I want to keep going, great. And I totally love that. That’s awesome.

                        I then applied that to salsa dancing and have realised that I love it. So, that’s been really cool. But I have wondered like, “Oh, what would it be like to apply that kind of thinking to business as well?” Like you know, rather than trying to maybe land a client for two hours a week, ongoing, being like, “Hey, I’m coming in with this particular project that will take me two months. And how do you feel?” I mean, I guess that’s kind of some of the offerings that I’ve started developing, “Oh, my God. Realisation while talking. That’s [inaudible] we’ve been creating.”

Alana:             Brilliant.

Koren:            That’s why those packages seemed like a good fit then. Yeah, just not being that lock it in, all or nothing sort of approach that we so often are pushed into.

Alana:             Yeah, totally. And I think that, you know, I just released a new offering, which is like day rate for like people with an existing Squarespace website. It’s like, let’s just get this done in a short period of time, like in a day, give me your wish list and I can do as much as I can done in that time. And a similar philosophy with my One‑Week websites because I’ve worked out from my values that this is how I like to work. And so, I’ve crafted- and this is where I do my best work, my most creative work, I feel most enlivened. So, I’ve worked out packages that fit into that.

                        But I think the other thing that you’re talking about there as well is like I implemented probably since I started this new phase of my business, but like 90‑day planning. So, every three months, I reassess what I’m doing and I pick certain projects that I’m going to work on in that time for my own business, so that it is that shorter period of time and it’s enough to like be- it’s chunky enough that you can do a really good project in it, but it’s not so long that you procrastinate or you feel you can’t reassess it at the end of those three months.

                        Someone who does that really well and teaches that really well is Dani Gardner, who I interviewed, the last interview with this, she does that really well and has like a three‑months planning and she plans for the seasons and she teaches it. So, I’ll leave a link for that under, under this as well because that’s I feel like a really sustainable way of tackling, getting things done in your business, but also being able to be flexible and fluid with what you’re doing as well.

Koren:            Yeah. And not locked in.

Alana:             Yeah. Cool. So, tell us- I mean, we’ve kind of touched on this anyway, but there might be some other things you want to talk about here, about the benefits of carrying out your business based on your values.

Koren:            Yeah. Look, I think one of the best things is it just makes my heart happy, you know.

Alana:             And that should be reason enough, shouldn’t it?

Koren:            Yeah. Like you know, when you just feel good about what you’re doing and it’s sort of like anytime I don’t now, I’m like, “Ooh, what’s that about?” And sometimes, I’m not ready to look at it and that’s okay. But, yeah, just doing things and feeling that kind of rush of like, “Yeah, this is so awesome.” And that makes me feel like I do better work for the clients, or write better stories, or whatever, have more creative ideas.

                        I mean, like take The Local Yum, for example, our little honesty stall that we have out the front of our house, and that was an idea that I’d had for four or five years and I just never had the energy to get it off the ground because I was working this really incredibly stressful fulltime job, in a nine to five office, except for it was more like eight to six most days.

                        And yeah, and so, once I moved on from that role, I think it was like the next month or something, I was just walking around the neighbourhood and I saw these shelves on a landfill pile of a neighbour. He was throwing all this stuff out of his shed and I was like, “Well, shit, that would be really good for that stall idea that I’ve had.” And like we knocked on his door and he was like, “I’ve got a van. Do you want me to drop it around?” It was like, “Yeah.”

Alana:             Handy.

Koren:            So cool. And yeah, so we created the stall and then from that, it just went nuts. Like people just loved it. You know, we ended up getting coverage in national magazines, being asked to present at a festival, or in a permaculture calendar. There’s like all of these people all over the country who are like, “Oh, my God. Honesty stalls in urban areas. It can be done. I’m starting one too.” And that’s really cool. And you could say like, “Yeah, okay, great. That was just a good idea or whatever,” but the thing about that honesty stall for me is that it’s not about making money and it’s not necessarily about just selling my chutney that I made or whatever. It’s actually about – as good as that is.

                        It’s actually about values. It’s about talking to people about the fact that our food system is deeply unsustainable, and what would it look like if our cities weren’t urban food deserts and we could actually grow food in our backyards to feed our local community? What would it look like if food was grown organically rather than with all the chemicals? What would it look like if we knew our neighbours and would know their names and would talk to them as they walked past our front yard or invite them for a coffee or a dinner? And that’s what’s underneath that project.

                        And it’s just fascinating to me that, you know, I needed kind of the space and that second realignment of like, “Hang on, what are my values to kind of come back to that?” And then just out of nothing, out of literally someone’s rubbish, came this project that has allowed me to connect with all these people and kind of challenge some of the ideas that come with living in the city that people aren’t trustworthy, that you can’t grow food here, that you need to keep your house closed off to all of your neighbours.

                        So, I think that’s kind of- one of the benefits is that you just don’t really know where it’s going to take you, or what kind of applications it’s going to have, what opportunities it will open up, I guess.

Alana:             Yeah. Yeah, beautiful. And we were talking before, I think this is just like a really good lead‑in to just maybe talking a little bit about values‑based content creation because I think that The Local Yum is a very, very good example of value‑based content creation that is not necessarily related to what you’re quote, unquote, selling, digital marketing strategy or in that arm of your business anyway, and doing lots of other stuff, but that it still has brought you that connection and those opportunities through people understanding what you’re really made up of and what you really believe, and feeling that connection, and then wanting to work with you because of that.

Koren:            Yeah. Yeah. That is a really interesting thing that I’ve noticed. Like I have an Instagram account for The Local Yum and an Instagram account for myself. And my day job is, like you said, digital marketing and a little bit of freelance journalism. And I don’t really talk about them that very much. The work that I do, I don’t really talk about that very much on either of those channels. I do a little bit on LinkedIn, but not so much on Instagram. And yeah, I’m getting so many opportunities and so many work offers through Instagram. And I find that really curious because all I’m doing there is sharing things that I find deeply useful and interesting.

                        But I guess because there’s that really strong value system under there and I’m kind of, I guess, in the back of my mind, “I’m always like, how can I use this as a little way to indoctrinate people about growing organic food,” or like, “How can I use this as a little way to kind of encourage people to notice when, I don’t know, their neighbourhood has been sprayed?” and maybe go talk to their council. Yeah, so even though none of that is about marketing – I do share some of my journalism stories, but pretty much nothing about marketing – yeah, I’m finding all of these people, who are like, “Oh, my God, can you help?” And they’re all super aligned.

                        They’re all like local food businesses, or like organic flower growers, or all this, an ethical fashion company, which is, yeah, I find that really curious because that’s actually not something I would necessarily recommend to a client. Like I would never say don’t ever talk about your work. I probably need to look at my own strategy a little bit more. But I guess what that shows is that you don’t have to always be talking about your product, or what you’re selling, or what your business is doing.

                        And I think you do that really well too, Alana. Sometimes, you’ll just. muse on business minimalism or something and you’re not really talking about like selling that. You’re just like, “I had this thought today, or I noticed today,” and, yeah, that’s really, really powerful. So, trying to- having those really solid values and then weaving them into whatever you’re talking about. Yeah, I think people kind of- they get a real sense of who you are and then maybe they’re like, “What does this person even do? Oh, they do marketing. I need that. Maybe I’ll send a message,” like maybe. So, it’s yeah, not even something I’d really consciously thought about before this conversation, but reflecting on it, it’s like, “Wow, that’s probably why that’s having that impact.”

Alana:             Yeah. Yeah. A 100%. And you know, I think the first time that I was really tipped off to this idea of values‑based content is because of She Makes Magic. But years later She Makes Magic was not really- that’s our old podcast, if anyone’s wondering, a podcast that we did together, but really wasn’t related to any of the work that we’re doing now. But what I found is that when I started selling websites, people coming to me and saying, “I found you through She Makes Magic, or I found you through your other podcast and have been wanting to work with you and just been waiting for the right thing.”

                        And it made me think, like, “Why is that? Why is that these two seemingly unrelated things keep people connected with me to my community and coming back to me?” And yeah, I think it’s purely what you’re saying there is that the values that are underpinning that, and more and more people want that. They’re looking for that deeper connection and that to then filter through into the work that you’re doing for them. It’s not so much anymore about buying a product or buying a service. It’s like all of the values and ethics that encompass what you’re doing as well is so very important.

Koren:            And in this age of greenwashing where so many brands are just like, “Oh, yeah, we donate like 1% of profits,” and never report how much money they’ve donated or do all of these things they say they’re doing, but there’s not much proof. Well, firstly, I think that’s where sort of like small businesses have huge power because you can relate a lot more personally and talk about the people within your organization and what you truly believe. So, that’s really powerful versus a larger brand. But also, people can potentially follow you as a person back through some of what you’ve done previously and say, “Oh, yeah, this person’s actually been doing this for years. They’re not just saying it. They actually mean it.” They walk the talk.

Alana:             Saying the latest things to get the likes and so on. So, we’ve talked about like all the good, cool things that can come from running value space, but I mean, with everything that we do or choose, there come sacrifices, or you know, some not so great things. Can you touch on that for us, what might have been some of the downfalls of doing business in this way?

Koren:            Yeah. I mean, it’s really challenging to live this way in some respects because, I mean, for example last year, I went for two jobs that were both pretty great and got offered both roles at the same time and they were both like relatively well aligned, but one was a lot more aligned than the other. And the less aligned one paid so much more, just like an astonishingly higher amount. And so, I had this decision, you know, like money or what matters to me.

                        And I know that I’m speaking from a position of privilege here. I obviously recognize that I’m really lucky to be able to be financially stable enough to make that choice and to have those opportunities. So, having said that, yeah, it was really tough to decide. And I think the old me pre this whole realisation around I need to put what’s important to me front and centre in all areas of my life, not just my personal life, I probably would have just gone the money route. But I didn’t. I chose the lesser‑paying job and it always feels like a jumping off of a cliff, like, “Oh, God,” like jump, jumping into the free fall, like, “Have I made the right decision?”           But yeah, I guess you’ve just got to have a bit of faith that it will kind of come together, which, yeah, it did.

                        And I guess the other thing is that idea that I was talking about right at the beginning that this is not a static thing. It’s not like, “I decide my values,” tick, it’s done. Because we’re all growing and changing, the world is growing and changing, I’m thinking about things now that I didn’t even know I should be aware of, like my privilege as a White middle‑class woman living in Australia. I wasn’t even really aware of that 10 years ago.

                        So, as you become more aware and more informed, I think, well, my values are definitely shifting. And I think it’s only really in the last year and a half that I’ve, A, realised that’s a thing and, B, realised I need to keep checking in and reassessing. Yeah, it’s not just, “I made the decision. I jumped off the cliff, done.” Like there’s probably lots of little cliffs to jump off all along the way.

Alana:             Oh, that got dark quick.

Koren:            In a good way. There’s water underneath or something, or you’re wearing a parachute. It’s fine. You’re going to live. You’re going to be better. You’re going to fly. Ah, there we go. That’s the metaphor I was looking for. Yes, jump off the cliff and fly. Yeah. And you know, you are doing- well for me. I should speak for my own personal experience. I know that some of what I’m doing is quite different. It’s like you were saying earlier, it’s different to the dominant paradigm that we’re living in and people can find that really challenging.

                        Even something as simple as wanting to work part time, like I remember a recent CEO that I worked with, when I told him that I wanted to work part time, he was like, “But what about your career?” And I was like, “What about it?” And he was like, “Well, how are you ever going to become an executive or a CEO if you work part time?” And I was like, “Well, have you heard about those two awesome chicks, who ran the inquiry into banking? They managed it together and had a managed team?” And he was like, “I just can’t ever see that working,” you know.

                        And it’s really hard when you’re pushed up against someone like that, who’s in a position of power and is just shutting down any of these other ways of being. It’s hard to be firm in your decisions and when you’re kind of confronted with that. So, yeah, I guess my only advice there is just go gently, you know. If you can’t do it right now, that’s okay. Even just acknowledging that what you stand for and you want to do better at some point is a step in the right direction because most people don’t think about this, I think.

                        I think most people- what I’ve realised is that most people, or there’s a large section of society who do care and they’re quite firm in what they believe is right for the world in whatever area their particular interest focus is. But they leave that at the door when they go to work. And they’re like, “That’s separate. You know, that’s my personal life. I’ve got to be this robot in this corporate world.” And that’s part of the problem. And I think if more people layered that over the top of their working life, like you know, figured out their values and then layered that over the top of their working life, we’d all be in a much better place.

Alana:             Yeah, totally, 100% agree with that. And I sort of think about this concept of- I kind of stole it a little bit from Sarah Wilson because she talked about loneliness burnout, or something like this in one of her books. But I noticed that a similar thing is happening with moral burnout. And that’s what you’re describing there is that we have these values, which we may or may not use in our personal life, but when we go to work, or we sit down in front of our desk to run our businesses, we aren’t running them in alignment with our values.

                        And I believe that that results in moral burnout and where- you know, burnout is burnout, however that looks, but I think it’s morally what causes it because we sacrifice these fundamental underlying aspects of ourselves to make money. And that is just absolutely not sustainable. So, it is not surprising that people burn out and get sick, or they’re suffering mental illnesses, or anxiety, or depression, or you know. That’s what happens especially because we have to work so much to be able to just get by in the way that you know- or perceive we have to work so much to get by in the way that our societies and monetary systems are currently structured.

Koren:            Yeah. Yep. That’s so true. And it’s really challenging. I think that’s an opportunity if you’re running your own business to- that’s one of the beauties of running your own business. You know, if you’re in a really large organization, and my experience has been the larger the organization, the more toxic the culture becomes. It becomes more heavily bureaucratic, more hierarchical, less human connection, more dismissal of individual values for corporate norms that might be highly out of alignment. That’s such a hard place to feel like you can make any difference.

                        But if you’re lucky enough to do a bit of work for yourself, or run your own business, you actually have the power to change that and be part of a new movement of people, who run their businesses according to, you know, the values with which they’ve lived their personal life. And you can sort of see it popping up and seeing all these really cool businesses. One I’ve really been liking the look of lately is The Digital Picnic, which I think they’re based in Melbourne and it’s a digital agency. And yeah, if you have a look at their socials, this is just a business run by a woman in a way that most businesses are not in Australia. It’s awesome the way she champions her people and respects neurodiversity and all of these different amazing things.

                        And I think we’re kind of lucky in a way that we’re at this juncture in the world where we’re starting to see some really good examples of how it can be if it’s different. You know, that wasn’t as obvious 10 years ago, I don’t think. And once there’s more examples, more people are like, “Oh, that is possible.” I mean, take working from home because of COVID, you know. That was, “Working from home was crazy. Who would do that? The world will fall apart.” And now it’s like, “Oh, it’s no big deal.” And actually, everyone loves it.

                        So, yeah, it’s just really cool to kind of see these paradigms being slowly broken down a little bit. And I think as small business owners, we can play a pretty cool role in pushing that forward. And that will eventually, hopefully, filter across into the ginormous toxic corporate.

Alana:             Machine.

Koren:            Yeah. Exactly.

Alana:             Thank you. So, I guess, touching on all of this, I know that there would be people who are probably still working in the corporate environment listening to this and there would be some people who have their own businesses, or in situations where it’s kind of like half‑half, or a fraction here and a fraction there. Can you give some practical steps, or one or two pieces of advice for people in those situations where they could start moving more towards a values‑based business, or income‑making model? It doesn’t necessarily need to be for your own business either.

Koren:            Yeah. I think the easiest way to start would be just sort of writing down- and maybe thinking in your personal life because that’s often easier, writing down what’s important to you, like what needs to be true in the world for you to feel good in yourself and in your community. And that could be anything from like, I don’t know, sustainability measures to knowing the names of all of your neighbours, to I don’t know, whatever it is, just write that all down. Get it all down on paper and then layer that across your working life.

                        Again, this is that step that I think people just don’t do. So, layering that across what you do for work and seeing where there’s alignment and where there’s not. And maybe that’s enough for now. Maybe it’s just an exercise in seeing and then you sort of just leave it, or maybe you start to chip away at little elements of it. I think that can be really a simple and powerful way.

                        If you want to delve much more deeply into it, I would totally recommend you go and have a look at Holistic Decision Making. So, this is something that I studied last year with a guy called Dan Palmer. So, he’s been involved in the permaculture movement for quite a long time. He’s a Kiwi, who used to live in Australia and has just moved back to New Zealand. But yeah, he does online courses around this systems thinking kind of model that was developed by Alan Savory, who is this guy from Zimbabwe who’s done a lot of work on sustainable agriculture. And his whole method was around figuring out what is important to a person or an entity and then creating quality of life statements around that entity. So, how do we want to feel in our world and then outside of those quality-of-life statements, creating enabling actions.

                        So, what do we actually need to do in order to make those feelings happen or be true, to make those quality-of-life statements being true. It’s insanely powerful. And the coolest thing is that you can do this for yourself personally, but you can do it for anything. You can do it for your relationship, your business, a community group you’re involved in, anything. And having just gone through it with a little growers’ collective group I’m involved in, I’ve realised it’s super powerful when there’s lots of people, when you’re like a group of people coming together. So, I can see how it would work really well for a small business because you actually sit everyone down at the table and work on this map together and figure out what does quality of life mean for all of the players at this table and then what does our business need to do in order to make that true for all of us here.

                        And once you’ve figured out all of that, that’s your decision-making tool. So, when you have decisions in front of you, you’re like, “All right, well, let’s layer it over this map that we’ve very clearly articulated. And how does that align?” And if it doesn’t align, it either means maybe it’s not quite the right opportunity, or your values have shifted. So, you kind of get this like really great, if you remember to use it, which is something that’s not always easy to do too. But yeah, I have found this so unbelievably powerful. So, yeah, Holistic Decision Making is a great one to have a look at.

Alana:             Any other tips?

Koren:            Yeah. I think I’m almost considering scheduling like a recurring meeting in my calendar and calling it something lame like values check in or something just to actually remind myself to look back at this because it’s so important. And especially if you put the work in to figure it all out, you know, it’s such a shame to kind of then like let it go. It’s like a living, breathing thing that exists alongside of you and can actually make decision making a lot easier because really, that’s what we’re talking about here.

                        We’re talking about making decisions in your business, like who will you work with, what kind of content will you write, who are you going sell stuff to? They’re decisions. How much are you going to work? How much money do you need? What kind of lifestyle do you want to have? Like there’s all little micro decisions that need to happen there in order for that to become true. So, I guess, having a value, a really firm value system gives you something more to make a decision from rather than just “do I want that much more money in my bank account?”

Alana:             Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I think that’s such a good point because we can, when we run our own businesses, get distracted by things and, or we get things which appear on the surface to be really good opportunities, or you know, we get told we should run our business in this XYZ way and we can just suddenly, like we can just shoot off in all of these multiple directions. And I’ve definitely found, as it sounds like you have as well that when I keep just coming back to the values and going like, “Really, is this going to help me get to where I want to be, or support the fundamental aspects of how I want to run my business in this way?”

                        And even though on the surface, it might look like a really great opportunity or a really great offering or idea, when I delve into it a little bit more, I realise that it’s actually not going to take me in the direction that I want to go. And sometimes, maybe even in the opposite. And I’ve found – and this is just trial and error, right – but I’ve found like that if I try to push through with those things anyway, they never work, or they lose momentum. I lose excitement about them. But when I do things that. fit those fundamental values for me, they have longevity, and sustainability and momentum behind them that other things wouldn’t have. And sometimes, they don’t look like they should or that they’re great ideas or whatever, but because they have my values underpinning them, it works.

Koren:            Yeah. It’s so true. And a lot of people sort of say, “You know, follow what feels good.” And that’s like a really, really great marker. But when you’re feeling like lost, or overwhelmed or confused, sometimes you’re not sure how you feel. Like one morning you’re like, “This is the greatest idea ever,” and the next day you’re like, “Why did I say yes to that?” So, like it kind of just gives you another tool in the kit to kind of cross‑check things against, especially when you’re facing a big decision.

Alana:             Yes. Awesome. Thank you. Is there anything- I don’t even know how long we’ve been chatting for, but probably, definitely not the allocated 20 minutes.

Koren:            That was a great three hours. If anyone’s still listening, thank you.

Alana:             Is there anything else you want to, you know, add about this conversation?

Koren:            No. I just want to say thanks, Alana, because this, well, it’s been a really, really great chat, but also, this has reminded me, like, “Oh, God. I haven’t checked in on my values for a while.” So, it’s been like one of those important kind of, “Oh, God. Am I heading into realisation number three? So, yeah. It’s just been really good to kind of take some time to reflect on what it all means and how important and powerful it actually is. So, yeah, thanks.

Alana:             It’s my pleasure. Thank you. It’s been the same for me. That’s why I want to have these chats. They’re just nice and refreshing and good reminders for these things. Thanks, Koren.